29. Female Pioneers in Japanese Animation 7-③ Tomoko Saitō

Tomoko Saitō

Main Affiliation/Position: Benten Film Co., Ltd., Producer
Major Works:
-Web Anime "Wish Upon the Pleiades" (2011), Music Producer; TV Series "Wish Upon the Pleiades" (2015), Producer (Director: Shōji Saeki, Production: Gainax)
-"The Mystic Archives of Dantalian" (2011), Music Producer (Director: Yutaka Uemura, Production: Gainax)
-"Forest of Piano" Season 2 (2019), Music Director, Final Episode Storyboard Artist (Director: Hiroyuki Yamaga, Production: Gaina)
-"Lights of Sand" (2017) / "Dom Pérignon The Power of Creation" (2004) Music Production / Sound Producer (Director: Hiroyuki Yamaga, Production: Gainax)
-Opera "Arakawa Bayreuth: Das Rheingold" Producer (Director: Hiroyuki Yamaga, Production: Tokyo International Association of Artists, Production Cooperation: Gainax)
Keywords: #Producer , #Music Publishing

*This is the English version of #27.
――Please tell us about your current job, position, and main responsibilities.

My title is Producer. Currently, I'm working on "Uru in Blue," a project that's been in development for decades. Beyond that, I established our company's music publishing division, so I primarily handle copyright management for the music we oversee.

――Does music publishing refer to managing copyrights for music related to anime?

Yes. We have entrustment agreements with the music copyright management organizations Japanese Society for Rights of Authors, Composers and Publishers (JASRAC) and NexTone. While it covers only some of our works, we hold the rights to the music from our company's productions. This initiative began during our company’s time as Gainax. Music publishing is typically handled by TV stations or record companies. However, for an animation production company like ours that handles music publishing, the significance of undertaking music publishing goes beyond securing profits from it. It reflects our strong belief in the crucial role music plays as part of a work's artistic direction. By having a music publishing division on the video production side, our stance toward music becomes more visible to people outside the company, and perhaps as a result, it feels like it’s become easier to have conversations or consultations about music production. Additionally, it allows us to easily control the usage of our music beyond production itself, such as for work-related events, promotions, and song usage within committee companies.
     Producers from several music agencies I've worked with before, such as agencies representing many famous J-Pop and enka artists, told me, "Ms. Saito, it's inevitable that your influence over the music in your works will weaken if you don't have your own music publishing division." From a specialization perspective, it's understandable that anime studios are seen as experts in visuals, not the music business. The fact that we run our own music publishing company allows us to demonstrate our commitment to music, which is significant. Since starting to publish our own music, we've learned what's crucial for quality control in music production, how profits are generated from songs, and the challenges of making a profit. This understanding has allowed us to have in-depth discussions with record company representatives and to closely collaborate with composers on music for specific scenes within a work.

――You're absolutely right, musical direction is truly vital. Even in scenes without dialogue, music conveys emotion.

Exactly. It's often called "background music," so it tends to be seen as just an "assisting" role to the visual expression of the work. But in terms of the work's direction, it's truly just as important as the visuals.

――For example, Disney places a huge emphasis on music, right?

Yes. As a child, I was so moved by the excitement of the animation and music in Disney movies that I thought, "If only I could do work like this." That's what made me want to become someone who creates music for visuals.

――I see. Could you tell us a bit about how you entered the industry, starting from what you loved as a child?

Back then, Japan Columbia released Disneyland Records featuring stories, songs, and music from Disney films. The first one I got was "Sleeping Beauty." I listened to it daily on a small record player made for children and memorized every song and line. That record sparked my interest in voice acting. Next, I was greatly influenced by NHK's music program "Stage 101." It featured The Beatles and musical numbers in real time for the era. At the time, the program was curated under the musical direction of Osamu Shōji and Hiroshi Miyagawa, two leading figures in the Japanese music scene of the time who would later go on to compose music for anime, and it also incorporated original pieces composed by them. Fashion-wise, it showcased mini-skirts and boots, the cutting edge of fashion of the era,. It was a singing and dancing program. The choreography was handled by Michinori Sakagami and Taku Yamada, who also choreographed Japanese musicals. The composition and arrangements were excellent, and I believe the skill and taste of the choruses were quite high for the Japanese pop scene at the time.
Another composer who profoundly influenced me was Tōru Takemitsu. I was captivated by the music for NHK's program "Legacy for the Future." It felt completely different from the music I'd heard before with its clear harmonies, flowing melodies, and steady rhythms. Through Tōru Takemitsu's compositions, even as a child, I sensed the vast breadth and profound depth of music. In terms of influences on singing and music, my father would occasionally borrow musical records from his newspaper company’s archive room, and I listened to them a lot too. All of this happened when I was in elementary school. You could say this laid the foundation for my love for musicals as an artistic fusion of visuals and music.

――When you say musicals, do you mean Disney musicals?

My first encounter was with Disney, but later I also experienced Broadway musicals and Hollywood films, like “My Fair Lady,” “The Wizard of Oz,” and “Jesus Christ Superstar.”

――――How did anime tie in from there?

It started with “Space Battleship Yamato,” composed by Hiroshi Miyagawa who, as I mentioned earlier, was the host and composer for NHK's “Stage 101.” I watched “Yamato” specifically because Miyagawa composed it. The big shift was when anime started targeting the generation transitioning from childhood to adulthood. This included the theatrical film “Yamato” and the TV series “Science Ninja Team Gatchaman.” As for voice acting, it all started in my very first class during my days as a student in Tokyo. Two girls happened to sit next to me and spotted the "Lupin the Third" anime pen case I had with me. They struck up a conversation with me, which deepened my interest in anime even more. They were close friends with a voice actor and knew a lot about the industry. They told me, "They're doing the dubbing right in the studio next to our school." It was a great era back then. Fans were allowed to wait near the gates and entrances of dubbing studios to greet or see off voice actors. I believe this was also the time when studio tours were possible if you applied in advance. Invited by them, I went along after class to wait for the voice actors after they finished their dubbing sessions. The voice actors were very approachable and friendly chatted with us. It's hard to imagine that happening now.
　　　Getting back to the beginning, my father's love for theater, movies, and music had a huge influence on me. It seems he was the one who decided to have me start piano lessons at age three. And when I developed an interest in theater in middle school, he even told me, "If you go to Tokyo, it’s okay if you join a theater troupe." Looking back now, perhaps because of his war experiences, my father had this skepticism or resistance toward working within a large organization, following someone else's orders. He believed you should do what you want. Plus, when he got drunk, he'd sometimes say things like, "Girls are boring anyway, they just end up getting married," and tell me, "Think about doing something else instead of getting married." That's definitely my father's "curse."

――That's huge.

It was huge. Furthermore, once I got to middle school, conversations at home with my father weren't really family chats about the day's events. Instead, he'd suddenly launch into things like, "What do you think about Japan's current agricultural policy?" or debates about what the 1960s student movement was all about, or asking me what I thought about something he saw on the news. That's what conversations with my father at home felt like. So, I hardly ever experienced the kind of family conversations during meals you see depicted in Showa-era family dramas.

――Do you have any siblings?

No, I'm an only child. However, my father worked for a regional newspaper company with branch offices throughout the prefecture. During his time at a particular branch office, we lived for several years in a complex where the workers’ residences and the branch’s office were combined. So, there was a period when I grew up surrounded by many adults. It felt like the outside world existed right inside our home. During his time working at that branch office, he sometimes took me along on his police beat rounds. One night, I was woken up with a bang and told, "Let's go." The police had contacted us about a whale that had washed up on the beach in the middle of the night, and we were going to cover it. I remember seeing that huge whale lying on the pitch-black beach.

――So your father showed you all sorts of things.

I suppose so. Looking back now, I'm incredibly grateful. That experience probably hammered into me the idea that the world isn't just about what you see. However, during my job-hunting days, there were sections on application forms asking about your family's religion and your parents' occupation. I heard that some companies would reject applicants outright if they wrote "newspaper reporter" under their parent's occupation. It seems the general corporate world really disliked that. Looking back now, I wonder if it was because Showa-era companies, with their rigid seniority systems and absolute organizational hierarchies, didn't want female new hires who knew that what you see and what your boss says isn't everything (laughs).

―――Did you join a regular company after graduating?

Yes. My father passed away from cancer when I was 20, the year I became a legal adult, so I had to earn my own living expenses. I returned to Niigata Prefecture to look for work. By chance, a colleague of my late father knew the HR manager at a company where I took a company entrance exam. The fact that my father was a newspaper reporter worked to my advantage. I got hired by a publicly listed dairy manufacturer with over 7,000 employees company-wide and was assigned to the Niigata branch.

――――How did that lead to anime?

Around the time I started working, the son of a friend from my mother's days at an all-girls’ school learned I played piano, as well as other keyboard instruments, and composed music. He reached out, and I ended up helping with the music production for an original anime being made by the local anime club at Niigata University. The anime club, acting as the organizer, decided to screen the "DAICON III Opening Animation" at “Gataketto,” a dōjinshi sales event in Niigata. I helped with the reception at the screening. That's where I met Mr. Hiroyuki Yamaga (Note 1), who had brought the film of DAICON III for screening. This was before the internet, but there seemed to be some kind of network, and screenings were happening nationwide in various places. I heard later that since Mr. Yamaga was from Niigata, he brought the film as the representative for Niigata from Gainax.
     Later, I learned from “Animage” magazine that Mr. Yamaga was working on "Royal Space Force: The Wings of Honnêamise." I was playing synthesizers back when Yamaha first started making them, and I was a fan of Yellow Magic Orchestra (YMO) and Ryuichi Sakamoto. I remember thinking as I read the article that the fact that Ryuichi Sakamoto was doing the music for Mr. Yamaga's first film was incredible! Then, around the time production on "Royal Space Force" finished and Yamaga returned to Niigata, I started talking with him a lot, along with former members of the Niigata University Anime Club. We'd basically have these all-night discussions at family restaurants. My entry into the anime industry wasn't because I wanted to be a producer in the anime industry. It all started when I watched the end credits of "Royal Space Force" in a movie theater and thought to myself, “I absolutely have to work with Mr. Yamaga.” After that, when I started talking with Mr. Yamaga, I remember him saying something like, "Anyway, I want to skewer together worlds from various fields. It's not just about making anime." I think "Royal Space Force" is a work with strong connections to society. I wanted to make that kind of work, and it seemed obvious that only Mr. Yamaga could create something like that. When people hear about "making anime," they often assume it's mostly about wanting to do the so-called “drawing” part. But for the kind of work I wanted to create, the perspective of how a work exists within society and what kind of impact it makes was crucial. However, I didn't have a concrete idea of what I could actually contribute to such a project. So, even during the period when there was absolutely no guarantee I'd get to work with Mr. Yamaga, I kept thinking about what I could do for his next film, what I should learn or what skills I should gain beforehand. I just kept doing whatever I could: reading every book I could get my hands on, meeting people I thought were important.

――You were still working at the dairy company while doing all that?

Yes. But around the ten-year mark of my employment, I began to feel the limitations women faced within the corporate system at the time. If I couldn't go into the anime industry, I thought that, even if it was separate from working with Mr. Yamaga, I could gain experience at the Shiki Theatre Company run by Keita Asari, whom I deeply respected. Then, at just the right moment, they had a mid-career recruitment opening, and I applied without hesitation. After that, I passed the document screening and went to Azamino in Yokohama for interviews with Mr. Keita Asari and the executives at the Shiki Theatre Company. I actually got hired for a desk position in the national touring department. Back then, big corporations were overwhelmingly male-dominated. Everything started with "Women should..." It was a male-centered society. There was a strong prevailing attitude that women should marry early and quit their jobs quickly. When a colleague at the dairy manufacturer got married and later became pregnant, I made up my mind alongside my female coworkers that we would never let the company pressure her into quitting. Out of sheer determination, we even took on her work ourselves at times, as a way of resisting through action and showing no openings for them to push her out. But such actions don't change companies. I also realized that if I stayed on this career path at the dairy manufacturer, I'd never get to work with Mr. Yamaga. I wanted to change my environment. However, my mother's attempts to stop me were more intense than I'd anticipated. And looking back now, I'm grateful the company also tried to keep me. They told me how much trouble my departure would cause. But my mother's resistance was the worst. She'd say things like, "Are you just going to leave me behind?" every single day. That hit the hardest. I was so overwhelmed I couldn't think straight. Then the company asked me not to quit too. I literally cried my eyes out before giving up on accepting the offer from the Shiki Theatre Company. Mr. Yamaga told me, "Personally, I think it'd be good for you later on to experience the theater world, so I'm in favor of you joining Shiki Theatre Company." But I gave up on joining Shiki Theatre Company. In the end, I think not going there is why I am where I am today.
*Note 1: Hiroyuki Yamaga was the president and representative director of the animation studio Gainax. He is an anime director, screenwriter, and producer originally from Niigata city in Niigata Prefecture.
*To be continued to 7-④

May 2025. Interview conducted in Kichijōji, Tokyo. Interviewed by Miyuki Yonemura and Akiko Sugawa-Shimada. Compiled and Edited by Akiko Sugawa-Shimada. Translated by Gabrielle Dulys.

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