v0.4.7-alpha.1

[ClassicOldSong]

GPU priority hack

This is a pre-release, it might cause unexpected issues.

This release does not change anything to the configurations, so you can safely downgrade to the stable release if you find it problematic.

Please report any findings you have with this version to the corresponding discussion:

1. Does it solve or decrease HAGS freezing?
2. Does it affect game performance?
3. Does it improve stuttering issues?
4. Have you noticed any other things get affected?

Please report with your system configurations including CPU/GPU model, memory type and speed, operating system and version, and GPU driver version.

---

This discussion was created from the release v0.4.7-alpha.1.

[HakanFly]

Hello,

• No Performance Degradation:
  I haven’t experienced any degradation compared to previous versions, everything remains smooth. But I didn't have any problems before.

• Tested Games:
  The Alters: Pushed to maximum graphics settings, with and without FG (no issues).
  Oblivion Remastered: Heavily modded with pushed graphics and RTX, using DLSS 4 MFG x3 (still smooth with occasional stuttering observed, but this is not new and unrelated to the GPU priority hack or Apollo: likely game specific).

• Host Setup:
  7800X3D (core curve -30 all cores)
  5090 (OC undervolt + 80% limited + core curve) & 580.88 driver version
  64 Go DDR5 6000 (latency optimized)
  Win 11 24h2 LTSC
  Steam overlay enabled with built-in performance overlay during stream

• Streaming:
  4K
  120 fps
  AV1 10bits SDR
  300 Mbit/s bitrate

• Latencies:
  I would like others to confirm this, but I have the impression that the encoding latency remains extremely stable (the maximum stays below 6 ms and the average rarely exceeds 4 ms). Even though I have done everything possible to maintain 100% GPU usage with or without FG.

My second client device is an iPad 13 Pro M4 with VoidLink. I haven't tested it. I'll come back again if I've missed anything.

[ClassicOldSong]

Thank you, what codec are you using?

[HakanFly]

AV1 codec (with 10 bits SDR)

[GitStorageOne]

How you enabled 10bits? As far as I know, virtual screen is 8 bit only.
My host screen is configured to 10 bit, but virtual screen shows 8.
10 bits in AV1 is related to HDR mode.

[kayti]

Hello,

No Performance Degradation:
I haven’t experienced any degradation compared to previous versions, everything remains smooth.

Tested Games:
Final Fantasy 16 (FSR, Frame Generation)
Cyberpunk 2077 (RT, DLSS, AMD Frame Generation, Path Tracing, Textures and Details High/Ultra)

Host Setup:
R9 7900
RTX 3080 & 576.80 driver version
32 GB DDR5 6000
Win 11 24h2 PRO
RTSS overlay for testing framerates etc

Streaming:
3440x1440
120 fps
HEVC HDR
400 Mbit/s bitrate
HAGS enabled

Latencies:
Like previous user said, host processing is stable, match perfectly framerate of game (in my case 60 for FF16 and around 70 I got for Cyberpunk, 3080 doesn't have enough juice for more ;))
Year or so ago, when I played Cyberpunk, with HAGS on, similar settings like right now were unplayable + was only getting around 40 frames :D Stream was very choppy and was freezing easily. Now it is smooth, stable and responsive. Huge improvement.

FF16 also feels more smooth/stable framerate, before had problem to hit 60 fps (was hovering between 55 to 60, both for stream and in game FPS, where stream was often "lagging" behind game FPS by 2-3 frames), now solid 60 for both game and stream, except few situations where game heavily drops FPS :) But stream FPS follow game FPS.

I didn't experience any stream related stutter.

EDIT. Works well with VRR too, my display reports refresh rates matching stream.

[ClassicOldSong]

Thank you

[VirtualGIT20]

Hello,

Here's what i've found:

Host Setup:
i9 9900k
3070 8GB & 580.88 driver version
32 Gb DDR4 3200 MT/s
Win 11 24h2
RTSS for monitoring resources and performance, 60FPS frame limit

Client Setup:
Nvidia Shield Pro
Artemis (latest version available)
Smoothest frame pacing option
1440p, 60fps with "double refresh rate" option enabled
150Mbit/s bitrate
HEVC HDR

Tested Games:
The Last of Us 2
Ghost of Tsushima
Cyberpunk 2077

Compared the two version "back-to-back"

• Does it solve or decrease the frequency of HAGS freezing?
  Seems like it, i've managed to play for more than 30 minutes continuosly at +7700 MB VRAM usage without any freeze while before it would freeze after 2/3 minutes.

• Does it affect game performance?
  The games that I've used in the test were configured to use a little over 7200MB of VRAM at MAX to remain stable.
  I've tried to encrease the quality of the texture to see if the stream would freeze, and it didn't.
  However, there was a degradation in performance from 5 to 10 fps avg compared to latest stable version, especially when approaching the limit of VRAM (from 7500MB and on) where I've experienced big stutters (like half a second).
  In general, even with previous settings, I've found more instability in games than with previous version.

• Does it improve stuttering issues?
  No difference found.
  In my setup, if I dont run the "smoothest" option in Artemis I experience some microstuttering (already confirmed that host hz = client hz), I've tried "low latency" and "balanced" frame pacing options but the microstutter is still present, so with my setup I didnt find any difference.

• Regarding latency:
  Didn't feel any difference.

[VirtualGIT20]

Thanks for the suggestion.

I've recently enabled my iGPU for the first time ever to shave off some VRAM usage from secondary apps possibly running in the background (like Playnite, Discord, Spotify) but I did the majority of my testing with it disabled.
In my case, it didn't make any difference.

EDIT:
To be clear, the microstuttering that I'm experiencing are not being captured from RTSS frametime graph so are not directly related to games but to the stream (in fact, I don't have any problem when gaming directly on my PC)

[VirtualGIT20]

UPDATE:
A little update after some hours of gaming.
Yesterday I played The Last of Us Part II for about 3 hours straight and experienced 2 major freezes, similar to what happened with the previous version.

During both freezes, VRAM usage was under control (around 7100–7200 MB). However, I was able to keep playing even in some cutscenes where usage spiked above 7500 MB.
So, while it does seem a bit more resilient than before, it still eventually crashes after some time.

Let me know if I can run additional tests or provide logs to help.

[malikouda]

@VirtualGIT20 Did you ever figure out the micro stuttering on Shield issue? I'm having the same issue. Only "Smoothest Frame Pacing" has no stutter, most other frame pacing options are unplayable or exhibit visible stutter. Refresh rate matches everywhere, TestUFO shows no issues at all, tried everything in stutter clinic. Games limited to 60fps via RTSS with a perfect frametime graph

[VirtualGIT20]

@malikouda
Not definitively, unfortunately.
With my setup, the Shield is basically stutter-free only with Smoothest Frame Pacing. Most other pacing modes still show some level of micro stutter, even with matching refresh rate and games locked to 60 FPS with a perfectly flat RTSS frametime graph.

I’ve also been testing a fork called Artemide (https://github.com/derflacco/moonlight-android). On my end it feels a bit faster and smoother, especially with the other frame pacing options, so it might be worth a try.
If you want to contribute with feedback, this is the discussion thread: derflacco/moonlight-android#1

P.S Also, with RTSS try "front edge sync" limiter and frame calculation point "frame presentation" and instead of "async" and "frame start", for me at least it is smoother

[malikouda]

@VirtualGIT20 Unfortunately I have to use Nvidia Reflex since I play a lot of games that require frame gen to hit 4K60, although that obviously has tons of problems separate from the Shield frame pacing options.

I've gone back to Sunshine/Moonlight vanilla at this point, since prior to trying out Apollo/Artemis that worked the best for me, although I have stutters there as well now. Back then I was using a dummy plug but all of the repos have updated a lot since then so I wonder if some central part of the code just broke frame pacing for the Shield in some way, or Nvidia drivers, or the Shield updates.

I'm thinking it's just a Shield problem, which is odd because so many people recommend the Shield as a client device and so many report to have perfect performance. You're the first person I've seen that has also reported that only Smoothest frame pacing works. I submitted a bug in Artemis but got no traction there sadly.

It's weird because in like December 2024 I was using Sunshine/Apollo and Lowest Latency mode with a dummy plug, playing Indiana Jones with frame generation, and it was rock solid, no stutters. I haven't ever been able to replicate that. I think there's just too many interactions between all the software involved (Nvidia, sunshine/moonlight and all the forks, not to mention windows and network stuff as well). I think its just too many dependencies to ever reliably maintain without just not updating any software or device.

[Monolithxxx]

so, to roll back, I just need to install the previous version and that's it? does it always work this way, or specifically in this build? Because often when I want to install the previous version, I delete the new one and have to reconnect the devices.

[ClassicOldSong]

Yes, just install and all settings are kept.

When the major/minor version bumps it's better to uninstall and reinstall.

But usually there's no need to rollback, regressions like the stuttering in 0.4.0 is rare.

[WesleyVanNeck]

Would this update solve some latency issues with encoding and mobile data our less latency at least on amd

[ClassicOldSong]

It won't solve network latency, whether it improves encoding latency depends. You can try and report your findings.

[BatJoe]

I have not had HAGS freezes with other builds so I'd be curious to know why some get it others don't? I thought I heard it was a VRAM issue? I have a 5090 so VRAM is not really a problem.

I'd be curious to know how this may or may not improve stuttering. The issue will be most won't know how to actually tell or if placebo is a factor.

@ClassicOldSong Are you able to provide more info what this GPU priority hack does? As I understand Sunshine/Apollo should normally set high priority when running by default?

[ClassicOldSong]

Sets absolute priority instead of relative priority. This hack was already being used long ago in OBS's official builds, but they have hide the actual flag used for some unknown reason.

[Cattleist]

I've been having issues re-installing Apollo where I'm unable to access zlib1.dll when installing. I've also tried running the installer in Admin mode to no avail. I've ignored the prompt and it appears to install okay, but the latency seems to be much worse. Any idea on this?

[ClassicOldSong]

Rare case but it shouldn't affect latency. Maybe something else changed?

[Cattleist]

Admittedly, W11 did just run an update before I tried updating. Maybe that's a factor?

[ClassicOldSong]

Try to rule out network changes first, and open stats overlay on the client to see what's happening.

[Cattleist]

After troubleshooting I discovered two things:

zlib1.dll was in use by some Logitech software. Ending this task was able to resolve the accessibility error I was encountering on install/updates. However this didn't affect performance.

Restarting my router did appear to fix the latency/Bad Connection problems that were occurring. Sorry!

[jonch919]

Findings:
Don't notice any difference at all. Still not very smooth like GFE used to be. (Don't know exactly what hags freezing refers to in this case). No latency issues. No direct stuttering, just not smooth.
Games tested so far: Wuthering Waves only, mid to high settings, dlss auto, rtx on or off, stable 60 fps

PC:
Win10 pro 10.0.19045
i5 12400F
GF 3070, 580.97, afterburner auto oc
DDR4 32GB 3600
60 fps gaming, rtss limit at 60, double refresh (240), vsync fast, only v-display active, hosts native res 3200x1440@120(240)

Client:
Samsung s21 ultra, 5gz wifi
Latest Artemis
Hevc (av1 doest seen to be supported), ~20ms decode, 20-200 mbit feels equal in performance
Native res, 120hz etc
Note: all frame pacing modes feels virtually identical. Not laggy, but choppy or unsmooth. Feels closer 30 fps gaming.

Update:
This build introduces major slowdowns after a while of streaming. Downgrading...

Update 2:
After downgrading it's much smother than before upgrading. Pretty smooth even.

[Pradinhodot]

What did you mean by the second update? And which version did you downgrade to?

[jonch919]

0.4.6.
After upgrading newest Nvidia drivers yesterday, everything is super smooth. Don't notice any difference between 4.6 or 4.7

[BatJoe]

I wonder would future builds be better to incorporate this as an adjustable setting instead?

[gmbhneo]

So in direct comparison from old to new version, things work much smoother and lags get less frequent on my end.

GeForce 4070 Ti Super
AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D
32GB RAM
Windows 11

Streaming to my LG G2 TV
2k
120fps
45Mbit

Games Tested:
Lost in Random - The eternal Die

Will test more later, but for now, things work much better on my end. Smoother and with less visual stuttering, I would say.

[Soladus]

I found a bug, if the TV is on 120hz but through the nvidia control panel set moonlight to work in 1/2 refrash rate (otherwise the TV can not be forced to work smoothly in moonlight and other games, they stutter, and such a solution makes games to work very smoothly and have faster controller responsiveness) and run the game (the division 2) in the settings to select window mode, then after a while the delay increases insanely a lot, such a problem is not noticed on version 0.3.7 hotfix 1

sorry for eng, not my native

[Soladus]

You can easily and quickly reproduce this problem by leaving the stream and returning again, and the decoding time immediately increases from 0.30 to 135.xx

[Soladus]

[ClassicOldSong]

Never had this problem and cannot reproduce.

Like I said before, everything related to "decoding" is a client side issue, it has nothing to do with the host. Maybe disable the frame limit on Moonlight and stream directly in 60fps instead?

[Soladus]

I got it. I have 60fps in moonlight and a 60fps limit on the host for the game, but I set 120hz on the TV and 1/2 refrash rate on the client. This happens when the game is in windowed mode on the host. Nevertheless, thank you! I will experiment

[Soladus]

I found a solution, it turns out that you still need to enable vsync in moonlight, but I don't understand why, because I was using 120hz 1/2 to avoid using vsync and reduce input lag.

[MohannedElfatih]

Used to get random frequent freezes, but they no longer happen with this version. I haven't noticed any smoothness/visual issues. Sometimes the whole stream freezes then disconnects but that might be a client issue (I just reconnect and it works fine)

Tested Games:
Sword of the Sea: Epic settings.
Metal Gear Solid Delta: High settings, 4k DLSS balanced + FG, and modded to enable hardware lumen.

Host Setup:
9800X3D
5090 undervolted & 581.08 driver
32GB DDR5 6000
Win 11 24h2
No overlays enabled

Streaming:
PC Client
4K165hz (164.997 to be exact)
AV1/H265 (Switched to AV1 due to banding in MGS Delta) 10bits HDR
150 Mbit/s bitrate

[aerodomigue]

Hello,

I've tested the v0.4.7-alpha.1 pre-release and I'm happy to report a significant improvement. About 90% of the freezes I previously experienced have disappeared.

Feedback on Key Points:

• HAGS freezing: The issue is almost entirely resolved for me. Previously, I had frequent freezes primarily in Forza Horizon 5, but they are now nearly gone. I also had freezing issues with Stellar Blade on the non-beta version of Apollo, but there were no freezes at all in this version.
• Game performance: Performance was stable across all the games I tested.
• Stuttering issues: I did not notice any new or worsening stuttering.
• Other noticeable effects: The overall experience was much smoother and more stable.

Games Tested:

• Valheim
• phasmophobia
• Stellar Blade
• Forza Horizon 5
• Factorio
• The last of us 1 and 2
• Resident Evil Village
• BF6 (Open Beta)

My Configuration:

• Server:
  • CPU: Ryzen 5700X3D
  • GPU: RTX 3080 10GB
  • Memory: 32GB DDR4 (3200MHz)
  • OS: Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC (24H2)
  • GPU Driver: 581.08
• Client (moonlight-qt and artemis for mac):
  • Device: Mac mini M4 (16GB)
  • Monitor: 3440x1440 144Hz
  • Video: H265 (YUV 4:4:4), 150mbps

Thanks for your hard work on this!

[dannycanham]

Hello,

No Performance Degradation:
No issues before and no issues during. Appears to handle streaming during heavy loading, shader compilation and maybe during high CPU usage better - like during lots of cars on a track in Horizon 5. Appears to reduce the worst dips in Maximum encoding latency resulting in better average encoding times and less variance. As well as the maximum latency generally being more stable if I was to average the Maximum encoding latency times over one circuit of Horizon 5 the Maximum latency improves by about 0.5ms (10%) which is huge.

Tested Games:
Forza Horizon 5
Marvel Heros

Host Setup:
9800X3D
5090. Overclock and boost limit. Ultra low latency mode. G-sync. 240fps limit through the nVidia app.
64 Gb DDR5 6400Mhz
Win 11 Pro latest
No overlays

Streaming 1:
1600p
240 fps
AV1 HDR
500Mbps
4060 mobile dGPU. Normal latency mode & G sync. As well as 185h iGPU.

Streaming 2:
M4 iPad Pro 13 with Voidlink also runs well. 500mbps. 2752x2064. 120fps.

[gmbhneo]

I am having these weird dips every like 5 seconds. I've made a video, hope that helps.

Games I tested: Many
Game in Video: Elden Ring (capped to 60fps because of game) & The First Descendant
GPU: Nvidia GeForce 4070 Ti Super
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D

PresentMon_oZwMolH8fT.mp4

PresentMon_6IrFlnbhpT.mp4

I see this in all games, and it looks like it's the Nvidia Card doing something (overshooting or something) that causes this. To me, it looks like the card "forgets" its limits and overshoots, which causes stuttering since it needs to become normal again.

[gmbhneo]

I never messed with nvcp settings. One thing I have noticed is, enabling Nvidia Reflex in-game and disable VSync could greatly help with smoothness

Tested, works pretty well now. However, after about 10-15 minutes, the connection is "freezing" for about 2-3 seconds. This happens about every 5 Minutes and is getting worse over time. Any idea about this?

By wifi? If so, do you happen to have an intel ax210? Then there's a well-known issue with this card, which stutters every 10 minutes due to global scanning. There's a custom firmware that allows you to disable this feature, and it has resolved all the stutters on my card.

Yes, Wi-Fi. I am using an Intel(R) Wi-Fi 6 AX200 160MHz and also tested a MediaTek MT7925. Both seem to have different issues. Intel one seems to have the global scanning. So, can you give me any link or info about it?

The MediaTek has issues in terms of stuttering my PC in general, since it's influencing my GPU Power, like stated in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWTZkB9rVU0 by JayzTwoCents. It is my Motherboards Wi-Fi card. So I've disabled it. But I would love to use it since it's Wi-Fi 7 and the intel one is just 6E. (Yes, my AP is 7 - Ubiquiti U7 Pro Max)

[Soladus]

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/intel-ax1xx-ax2xx-ax4xx-ax16xx-be2xx-be17xx-intel-modded-wi-fi-driver-with-intel%C2%AE-killer%E2%84%A2-features.326229/

[gmbhneo]

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/intel-ax1xx-ax2xx-ax4xx-ax16xx-be2xx-be17xx-intel-modded-wi-fi-driver-with-intel%C2%AE-killer%E2%84%A2-features.326229/

Thank you for sharing. However, I am not able to download and unzip the driver to test it. Also, the benefits seem not to include AX200 which I use. So no luck for me. The only solution I know thus far is to get a Qualcomm Card to replace my MediaTek since most intel chips don't work with AMD...

Anyway, thank you all for helping! Looks like I need to wait for MediaTek to update their drivers, since even the latest ones got issues with scanning every 10 minutes or so ...

[Soladus]

Use 7zip app. As far as I know, 200 is no different from 210, they are almost identical, and the versions 2xxx are listed in the name, so everything from 2 is suitable. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Soladus]

My 9800x3D works with the Intel AX210

[Alexandre-Tridon]

Hi, idk if I'm the only one experiencing stuttering at certain key moments in games.

Host setup:

AMD Ryzen 5 3600
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660s
RAM: 16 GB @ 3200 MHz
Windows 11 24H2 Pro

When I played Life is Strange, I noticed stuttering occurs when I'm in menus or when I'm examining objects, like the journal that Max carries in the game. I found a way to reproduce this stuttering: I just have to look at the credits and the stuttering appears. I tried the same thing with The Last of Us and the stuttering occurs there too. Could this be related to 30 FPS content?

[ClassicOldSong]

Have you tried using a frame limiter?

[Alexandre-Tridon]

I did, with the Nvidia panel control (first at 60 fps and also at 30 fps). I've tested my TV refresh rate with testufo and also tried different configurations of V-Sync/G-Sync, frame pacing, encoder, etc. I've also tested fullscreen and borderless windowed modes.

[Alexandre-Tridon]

I'm coming back here to share that the stuttering was actually caused by an incorrect video bitrate setting (either too high or too low). It’s tricky to determine the right bitrate, and I’ve also noticed—strangely enough—that my stream works better over 5GHz Wi-Fi with a 20 MHz bandwidth (for stability) than when my TCL TV is connected via Ethernet. That seems really odd to me. Anyway, thanks for the follow-up and the development work!

[gerbillinae]

I used to get freezes every 10-30 seconds. That has been fixed by this update

Games tested:
Battlefield 6

Host setup:
7945HX3D
5070 Ti
16gb vram

Client:
mac M3 Pro

Thanks!

[Randomtidus]

Still have microstutters every few seconds, i dont have this problem with sunshine. Cant revert back to 0.3.7 hotfix 1 anymore, because it wont install the sudovda. This is still the last version wich worked flawless

Ryzen 7 5700x3d
rtx4060 8gb
32gb ram

[ClassicOldSong]

Maybe it's caused by your monitor's auto switch input source feature

[TinoSM]

Host Setup:
i5 10600
9070XT latest version (constant bitrate+HDR, not defaults)
16 Gb DDRX
Win 11 24h2
RTSS for monitoring resources and performance, no frame limit

Client Setup:
MBP M4 max with AV1 (modified moonlight build found in github)
200Mbps bitrate, 4k 60fps

Tested Games:
MGS Snake eater

I was getting sttuters in 0.4.6, with 0.4.7.alpha1, i've played for 1hour and no sttuter.
Ok it came back, not sure what's the trigger, its some random sttuter but perfectly playable, anyways sameas prev version

MacOS is not the most reliable client tho, it could be that a system restart also fixed it, but anyways 0.4.7alpha1 went fine

[TinoSM]

Update here, Bf6 becomes unplayable with it

I tried BF6 (which eats my CPU a lot) and with this version it plays like CRAP, constant freezeing, I can only sustain like 30Mbps bitrate to play smooth, with 0.4.6 (rolled back) it is like 120Mbps

It works fine in "solo" mode (low CPU usage) and menus

[Soladus]

I don't have such a problem, I just recently streamed on steam deck oled and everything is fine.

[TinoSM]

I think mine is somehow related to very high CPU usage. I do play online redsec (i'm just testing, im mainly remote gamer so if it's not playable I won't buy the game)

[Arakiiel]

Host:
AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D
RAM 64.0 GB
GPU AMD Radeon RX 7900XT

Client setup: using the moonlight app on an xbox series x, connected to my pc via ethernet
1440p 60fs

Tested games:
Dragons dogma 2

Does it solve or decrease HAGS freezing?
It did not, I'm still getting regular freezes like the previous version
At 400Mbps the HAGS problem was extreme and constant, dropping to 300Mbps or 150Mbps I am still getting the HAGS problem when opening menus or when there is a big scene transition. The game continues to run and I can here the audio and can hear that the controller is being registered based on the audio. The on screen logs freeze as well so based on the logs it looks like everything has been running fine but obvously its not, I'm not even sure if it is the hags issue or there is just an issue with the moonlight app on xbox.

Does it affect game performance?
Didn't noticed any difference

Does it improve stuttering issues?
Didn't noticed any stuttering

Have you noticed any other things get affected?
No

[Soladus]

GPU priority hack

This is a pre-release, it might cause unexpected issues.

This release does not change anything to the configurations, so you can safely downgrade to the stable release if you find it problematic.

Please report any findings you have with this version to the corresponding discussion:

1. Does it solve or decrease HAGS freezing?
2. Does it affect game performance?
3. Does it improve stuttering issues?
4. Have you noticed any other things get affected?

Please report with your system configurations including CPU/GPU model, memory type and speed, operating system and version, and GPU driver version.

This discussion was created from the release v0.4.7-alpha.1.

Hi! Sorry to write in this thread, I don't want to create unnecessary topics. Throughout my time, I've used dozens of devices with different operating systems and specifications, and I'm tired of listing them all :) I've realized that out of everything I've tried, only the steam deck oled and a PC with an Nvidia GPU work smoothly, and even then, only if I enable 1/2 refresh rate through the inspector. Everything else has issues with vsync and micro-stutters. I'm getting to the point. Could you please tell me how you use moonlight on devices, specifically on windows, (because it's on this os that I see these issues), and how often you experience micro-stutters, and what settings you use? I've tried everything described in the wiki, but I haven't been able to achieve perfection. On linux, it varies, but it's often better than on the windows client. These stutters are particularly noticeable when the camera is smoothly rotating, and they're subtle, but i notice them. Right now, I can't achieve this smoothness on legion go s. All limits and so on are met

[Soladus]

Thanks for the response. I didn't quite understand what exactly can be tried on the host with apollo?

[ClassicOldSong]

https://github.com/ClassicOldSong/Apollo/wiki/Display-Mode-Override

[Soladus]

Thank you! But I use dummy plug and this for vd :(

Do I understand correctly that oled is better at handling micro stutters? Because I've tried using bazzite on the rog ally x and steamos on the legion go s, but they don't work as perfectly as the steam deck oled, and I don't understand why. The only thing that comes to mind is the difference in displays

[ClassicOldSong]

Not really, it depends on the display controller, which can be vastly different from device to device.

But I use dummy plug and this for vd :(

Why not give virtual display a try :)

[Soladus]

I tried it a long time ago, on another device, and there was no difference :) and the display showed stable 60hz in ufo, plus I have a host with amd :)

Is it possible to implement 1/2 refresh rate in the app? so that it works similarly to the setting in the nvidia inspector, but for amd there is no such option at all, and it might help for 120hz screens. I understand that you haven't made Moonlight, so this is a theoretical question.

[Procsiab]

Hello there, I am joining this discussion to report an improvement for my use case.

System Configuration

KVM virtual machine with Windows 11 25H2 guest os with VirtIO drivers and GPU pass-through; the system was customized through Atlas OS version 0.5.0

• 4 cores/8 threads of a Ryzen 7 3700X
• 16 GB of DDR4 RAM at 3200MT/s
• EVGA GTX 1080Ti FTW3 with "overclock BIOS"

I set Apollo to always create a virtual display when my Moonlight Desktop client connect, since the Virtual Machine does not use a dummy display dongle nor a physical display attached to the GPU.

The streaming settings of the client are 1440p at 60 FPS with 70Mbpps of bitrate over an Ethernet connection on both sides; also I chose to use borderless windowed display mode and to disable V-Sync.

Findings report

• HAGS: on my current configuration, disabling or enabling it does not seem to make any difference
• game performance: I experienced a lot of game crashes on "Kena: Bridge of Spirits" with Apollo 0.4.6, but after updating to this alpha I did not experience that again; more specifically, the whole guest system crashed and the only way to interact again with the virtual machine was to force a power off or a reset. This behavior did not occur on previous games like "Injustice 2" or "Split Fiction", but that was on a previous Windows 11 version and on a previous Nvidia driver version, so I am not sure if I just got an unlucky permutation of software components in this case
• stuttering issues: nothing changed in this regard, as in I am not experiencing stutters in the streaming configured as described above

In general, this alpha works flawlessly on Windows 11 25H2 for my specific use case (Atlas customization, inside a VM)

[sambuev]

Any news or this project is abandoned? It seems no longer update for 6 months. Who can fork it and continue?

[Soladus]

I'm also interested in this question.

[kayti]

Dev is busy with life/work, but is actively answering on GitHub issues, so it is not abandoned, more like temporarily stalled.

[armorgun]

4.7a1 with latest Nvidia driver 591.44 with a 3080TI causes black screens after around 3-5 minutes, every time. I am using it in headless mode so no screen connected and using vda. Error initially is failed connection but if you close the session and try to restart it's "encoder failure, is a display connected?" Connecting with chrome remote desktop also shows no video(normally shows a lowres image if no display connected and vda is not active. useful for updating apollo remotely) but I can win+x u r to restart the pc and then the cycle repeats. Reverting back to 4.6 fixed it.

[rairulyle]

Came here to say the same thing. When running on headless (all monitors off) it can't start a session.

[Soladus]

Try update Nvidia drivers to hotfix https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/game-ready-drivers/13/580035/announcing-geforce-hotfix-driver-59167-released-12/

I don't have any problems with dummy plug.

[armorgun]

@Soladus The hotfix driver with 4.6 just makes it return, I will stick to 4.6 and the regular driver for now

[joe-sama]

> 1. Does it solve or decrease HAGS freezing?
I got 5 freezings in 1 day with the old version thats why i looked for an update, no more freezing so far (need more time to test if i never edit this means no more freezing), HAGS is still on with no problem.

> 2. Does it affect game performance?
same

> 3. Does it improve stuttering issues?
same

> 4. Have you noticed any other things get affected?
not really

> Please report with your system configurations including CPU/GPU model, memory type and speed, operating system and version, and GPU driver version.

cpu 5600x
gpu 7900xtx
ram 32 ddr4 3200
win11 pro 2h52
adrinaline 25.12.1

[Legendhidde]

No Performance Degradation:
No degradation, performance is great.

Tested Games:
Mostly desktop performance
Overwatch 2

Host Setup:
AMD R9 9800X3D
RTX 4090 & 591.74
32 GB DDR5 6000
Win 11 25h2 PRO

Streaming:
3456x2234
120 fps
HEVC HDR
100 Mbit/s bitrate
HAGS enabled

Latencies:
Latency has been rock solid since the beginning, and this is no different. I was hoping this was going to fix an intermittent issue I have been having where on my client (Macbook M2) every few minutes I would get unplayable stutters every second. This will eventually go away sometimes in 10 seconds, sometimes it takes a few minutes. It has been the only reason I cannot play competitive games using Apollo.

[Soladus]

i mean dynamic refresh rate, lets say i watch youtube the fps drops to 24 on the tv because windows is refreshing only 24 times, nvm i got the answer you are using mac xDD

By the way, yes, I understand what you're talking about, I also noticed that the PC has an automatic fps drop when you don't move anything, apparently to reduce network consumption, I don't remember this happening before, I don't know how to fix it, I thought it was always like this and just didn't notice, though I didn't test with video

[joe-sama]

I figured out how to workaround, open windows stopwatch, run it and make it small it will be "always on top", throw it in corner, now your refresh rate is 119.99 :) no more choppy desktop.

[Soladus]

I figured out how to workaround, open windows stopwatch, run it and make it small it will be "always on top", throw it in corner, now your refresh rate is 119.99 :) no more choppy desktop.

I checked and by the way, there is no fps drops, video from youtube, everything works smoothly. But I use dummy plug, not virtual display

[joe-sama]

What do you mean no youtube? Youtube usually is 24, the the fps goes down to 22 26 and is choppy for me. Is there an advantage for the dummy plug over the virtual display?

[Soladus]

What do you mean no youtube? Youtube usually is 24, the the fps goes down to 22 26 and is choppy for me. Is there an advantage for the dummy plug over the virtual display?

I have corrected my text using a translator. I found a 60-frame video on youtube and everything was OK, and the 30-frame video is also smooth. Yes, I've done my tests and the dummy plug is somehow smoother, but that may be subjective.

[dev-mariana]

When will come out mac os version?

[Sylk]

When's the new release it's been almost a year. Should I just build and run this myself to get the most recent changes? What would you suggest? 😁😁

[ClassicOldSong]

If it ain't broken, don't

I'm working on something really big and it takes substantial amount of time to do, and it'll reshape how Apollo will be.

[joe-sama]

need help? I can do c++, you can source me some easy tickets/issues to empty from your plate a bit

[Sylk]

I haven't actually even installed it yet, I was just comparing this with the main branch available from sunshine/moonlight.

[ClassicOldSong]

need help? I can do c++, you can source me some easy tickets/issues to empty from your plate a bit

Thanks, but it's something that can't be casually done and you'll know why when I get it released

[deveshm18]

I can not get proper FPS without disabling HAGS on my PC. Which is something I don't really want to do as I quite enjoy the Frame Gen.
I have a 4070Ti Super + 7800X3D.

I am getting 35-40 Host FPS with HAGS enabled (when my host is at 120FPS). 50% VRAM consumption. Disabling HAGS gives me the same FPS as my host device.

I tried downgrading video quality in games from Extreme to Medium, did not help. Trying to stream at 1080P 120Hz on my Odin 2 Portal (Android) using Apollo + Artemis.

I already tried "Use realtime priority in hardware accelerated gpu scheduling" checked and unchecked both.

Does anyone have any further suggestions? I feel like I have tried almost everything

edit: I just tried Sunshine, it looks like that works well. So might be Apollo specific issue

[aaronth07]

Why would performance be decreased at a high GPU load if not set to realtime? GPU load is not binary and games won't use the encoding cores.