Open Letter to Project Aces: Read the Actual F-14 NATOPS Manual (Stop Ruining the Tomcat) :: ACE COMBAT 8: WINGS OF THEVE General Discussions

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ACE COMBAT 8: WINGS OF THEVE > General Discussions > Topic Details

Nitro Reaper

Oct 9 @ 10:56pm

Open Letter to Project Aces: Read the Actual F-14 NATOPS Manual (Stop Ruining the Tomcat)

To the developers at Project Aces: You completely botched the F-14A in Wings of Theve, and the community is completely baffled by your balancing logic. Turning the absolute poster child of the 4th-Generation fighter revolution into an artificial, low-tier "jousting" plane is a direct insult to aviation history. Granted I am not the only one reacting that sharply but lets face the facts.
Take a look at the actual reality versus your "Wings of LARP" balancing:
• The Weapon System Flaw: The entire engineering purpose of the F-14 Tomcat airframe was to carry the AN/AWG-9 radar and the AIM-54 Phoenix missile system. Stripping the LAAM from the F-14A and forcing it to carry clunky SAAMs or HVAAs makes absolutely zero sense. If you want to say F-14A on earliest stages didnt carry LAAM I severly beg to differ. Read up on VF-154 for example. They used F-14A since day 1 and they used AIM-54.
• The "Bombcat" Erasure: Stripping the SFFS (Self-Forging Fragments Submunitions) entirely ruins the versatile multirole sandbox fun. The Tomcat earned its "Bombcat" legacy by raining heavy ordnance with its wings swept back. In general the 3 SP.W choice system doesnt work out anymore because jets should have some sort of ordnance versatility in my opinion so it would be better to have to choose from 4 SP.W (2 Air to Air options and 2 Air to Ground options).
• The Generation vs. Age Mistake: Stop treating 4th-gen legends like low-tier trash just because they debuted in the 70s. Forcing multiplayer lobbies into a boring sea of nothing but Su-57s and F-35s completely strangles player creativity and kills the arcade fantasy.
For anyone who wants to see how a real Tomcat is supposed to operate, read the actual, official naval flight manual:
🔗 [https://info.publicintelligence.net/F14AAD-1.pdf]
We are not asking to make Tomcat overpowered or add PSM to it, all we ask is for some justice because lets face it: Making a BVR interceptor into a Joust machine is completly out of character. If you want to joust go ride F-104 or MIG-31.
So I on behalf of Tomcat Mains of community ask you Project Aces. Fix the F-14A loadout, or give us a proper F-14B DLC package with LAAM + SFFS + HPAA. Until then, a massive portion of your veteran Tomcat pilots are completely keeping their wallets closed. BKR NOT APPROVED.

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Showing 1-13 of 13 comments

Fastspectre has ACE COMBAT 8: WINGS OF THEVE

Oct 9 @ 11:19pm

Originally posted by Nitro Reaper:
To the developers at Project Aces: You completely botched the F-14A in Wings of Theve, and the community is completely baffled by your balancing logic. Turning the absolute poster child of the 4th-Generation fighter revolution into an artificial, low-tier "jousting" plane is a direct insult to aviation history. Granted I am not the only one reacting that sharply but lets face the facts.
Take a look at the actual reality versus your "Wings of LARP" balancing:
• The Weapon System Flaw: The entire engineering purpose of the F-14 Tomcat airframe was to carry the AN/AWG-9 radar and the AIM-54 Phoenix missile system. Stripping the LAAM from the F-14A and forcing it to carry clunky SAAMs or HVAAs makes absolutely zero sense. If you want to say F-14A on earliest stages didnt carry LAAM I severly beg to differ. Read up on VF-154 for example. They used F-14A since day 1 and they used AIM-54.
• The "Bombcat" Erasure: Stripping the SFFS (Self-Forging Fragments Submunitions) entirely ruins the versatile multirole sandbox fun. The Tomcat earned its "Bombcat" legacy by raining heavy ordnance with its wings swept back. In general the 3 SP.W choice system doesnt work out anymore because jets should have some sort of ordnance versatility in my opinion so it would be better to have to choose from 4 SP.W (2 Air to Air options and 2 Air to Ground options).
• The Generation vs. Age Mistake: Stop treating 4th-gen legends like low-tier trash just because they debuted in the 70s. Forcing multiplayer lobbies into a boring sea of nothing but Su-57s and F-35s completely strangles player creativity and kills the arcade fantasy.
For anyone who wants to see how a real Tomcat is supposed to operate, read the actual, official naval flight manual:
🔗 [https://info.publicintelligence.net/F14AAD-1.pdf]
We are not asking to make Tomcat overpowered or add PSM to it, all we ask is for some justice because lets face it: Making a BVR interceptor into a Joust machine is completly out of character. If you want to joust go ride F-104 or MIG-31.
So I on behalf of Tomcat Mains of community ask you Project Aces. Fix the F-14A loadout, or give us a proper F-14B DLC package with LAAM + SFFS + HPAA. Until then, a massive portion of your veteran Tomcat pilots are completely keeping their wallets closed. BKR NOT APPROVED.

this is NOT a sim, it is a arcade game
BTW JOUSTING is THE EPITOME of BVR, in terms of what is possible in AC because it's ALL so short ranged anyway
also you could just fly the D instead of the A

Last edited by Fastspectre; Oct 9 @ 11:23pm

Nitro Reaper

Oct 9 @ 11:41pm

[/quote]
this is NOT a sim, it is a arcade game
BTW JOUSTING is THE EPITOME of BVR, in terms of what is possible in AC because it's ALL so short ranged anyway
also you could just fly the D instead of the A [/quote]

I see your take but at the same time, AC7 was arcade to but still it had some decency to be faithful to history of jet itself. I`m not forcing game to be a Sim ffs. If that was the case I`d go dump my money into DCS. But saying that jousting is BVR is outright stupid and here is why. Beyond-Visual-Range (BVR) combat is literally defined by using superior radar(which lets be honest everyone in AC has uber long range radar) and POSTIONING(see i even wrote it in caps) to destroy the enemy before you enter a visual merge. Forcing two jets to fly directly head-on at each other like medieval knights until someone blinks is the literal opposite of BVR doctrine. It's a desperate, un-tactical chicken fight. I`m a BVR main in AC7. I flew all F-14 variants and i can say that Positioning is most crucial thing in BVR. The only jet that i found working for Jousting and BVR in AC7 is MIG-31 but let me remind you that F-14 is not a flying brick. it can TURN. But sure. Let`s just eat anything we get thrown at us.
Also regarding range. You wanna tell me HVAA can be launched off rail already bulldog like LAAM from... I dunno... 11000-15000 range?

Last edited by Nitro Reaper; Oct 9 @ 11:43pm

Midnightfen0083

Oct 9 @ 11:53pm

Lol, it's an arcade game, you re thinking too much bro, just enjoy the game this in not Flight Simulator.

Weizsgriff has ACE COMBAT 8: WINGS OF THEVE

Oct 10 @ 12:11am

As others have said, this is not a sim, but overall I do agree that the plane is too underwhelming. I used it for two missions and then never again because I was able to instantly afford something nicer.

Alpha2518

Oct 10 @ 12:15am

Originally posted by Nitro Reaper:
I see your take but at the same time, AC7 was arcade to but still it had some decency to be faithful to history of jet itself. I`m not forcing game to be a Sim ffs. If that was the case I`d go dump my money into DCS. But saying that jousting is BVR is outright stupid and here is why. Beyond-Visual-Range (BVR) combat is literally defined by using superior radar(which lets be honest everyone in AC has uber long range radar) and POSTIONING(see i even wrote it in caps) to destroy the enemy before you enter a visual merge. Forcing two jets to fly directly head-on at each other like medieval knights until someone blinks is the literal opposite of BVR doctrine. It's a desperate, un-tactical chicken fight. I`m a BVR main in AC7. I flew all F-14 variants and i can say that Positioning is most crucial thing in BVR. The only jet that i found working for Jousting and BVR in AC7 is MIG-31 but let me remind you that F-14 is not a flying brick. it can TURN. But sure. Let`s just eat anything we get thrown at us.
Also regarding range. You wanna tell me HVAA can be launched off rail already bulldog like LAAM from... I dunno... 11000-15000 range?

Arcade games are going to balance to the needs of the game. For games that are more accurate relatively speaking, there are simulator games for that. But even those have limits. For example, if we put in the latest aircraft in War Thunder right now all we would have available is whats publicly available, meaning everything else about the aircraft can be balanced around how the developers want the aircraft can be balanced for the needs of the game. Not so much an issue with older aircraft.

Last edited by Alpha2518; Oct 10 @ 12:15am

Midnightfen0083

Oct 10 @ 12:24am

Originally posted by Weizsgriff:
As others have said, this is not a sim, but overall I do agree that the plane is too underwhelming. I used it for two missions and then never again because I was able to instantly afford something nicer.

Because now the F14 is a very old plane and outdated by many other planes like the F15, 18 or even the F16 or Euro and Russian planes too.

Sure you can like Top Gun if you want but we re not in the 80s anymore, so the plane is not going to be a top tier plane.

Nitro Reaper

Oct 10 @ 12:27am

[/quote]
Arcade games are going to balance to the needs of the game. For games that are more accurate relatively speaking, there are simulator games for that. But even those have limits. For example, if we put in the latest aircraft in War Thunder right now all we would have available is whats publicly available, meaning everything else about the aircraft can be balanced around how the developers want the aircraft can be balanced for the needs of the game. Not so much an issue with older aircraft. [/quote]

Okay. Fair. Then my take is that F-14 Balance is crap in AC8 and AC7 did a better job. All I'm saying is that removing signature weapon from the jet is freaking dumb. Its like having Morgan without the giant laser on its back. Or X-02 without folding wings and Thrust Vectoring. Or you know. Removing thrust vectoring from all sukhoi jets. Thats how removing LAAM from F-14A feels like. I know they wanted to add variety but they couldve swapped SAAM and no one would complain believe me.

Nitro Reaper

Oct 10 @ 12:30am

Originally posted by Midnightfen0083:
Originally posted by Weizsgriff:
As others have said, this is not a sim, but overall I do agree that the plane is too underwhelming. I used it for two missions and then never again because I was able to instantly afford something nicer.

Because now the F14 is a very old plane and outdated by many other planes like the F15, 18 or even the F16 or Euro and Russian planes too.

Sure you can like Top Gun if you want but we re not in the 80s anymore, so the plane is not going to be a top tier plane.

My brother in christ. It's a 4th gen jet. It literally bested F-15 historically. Its a Mid-high tier jet. Im not saying top tier. It'll never be. But mid tier at least. What they did to it in AC8 is disrespectful.

Weizsgriff has ACE COMBAT 8: WINGS OF THEVE

Oct 10 @ 12:33am

Originally posted by Midnightfen0083:
Originally posted by Weizsgriff:
As others have said, this is not a sim, but overall I do agree that the plane is too underwhelming. I used it for two missions and then never again because I was able to instantly afford something nicer.

Because now the F14 is a very old plane and outdated by many other planes like the F15, 18 or even the F16 or Euro and Russian planes too.

Sure you can like Top Gun if you want but we re not in the 80s anymore, so the plane is not going to be a top tier plane.

That's logical, yes, the only problem is that the next plane you unlock is a freaking Mig-21 and when you give the pilots an option to pick their own planes they take instead of the F14, balancing wise the game makes little sense lol

My main issue is that the game doesn't have a lot of planes, and you unlock them really quickly, so I find it a bit underwhelming that like 50% of the planes become irrelevant by mission 8, if not sooner. Would have been nicer if each one had something special since as mentioned before, it's not a sim.

Imagine if they allowed you to stick a railgun on an F4 in post game

Nitro Reaper

Oct 10 @ 12:35am

Originally posted by Weizsgriff:
Originally posted by Midnightfen0083:

Because now the F14 is a very old plane and outdated by many other planes like the F15, 18 or even the F16 or Euro and Russian planes too.

Sure you can like Top Gun if you want but we re not in the 80s anymore, so the plane is not going to be a top tier plane.
That's logical, yes, the only problem is that the next plane you unlock is a freaking Mig-21 and when you give the pilots an option to pick their own planes they take instead of the F14, balancing wise the game makes little sense lol

My main issue is that the game doesn't have a lot of planes, and you unlock them really quickly, so I find it a bit underwhelming that like 50% of the planes become irrelevant by mission 8, if not sooner. Would have been nicer if each one had something special since as mentioned before, it's not a sim.

Imagine if they allowed you to stick a railgun on an F4 in post game :MonkLove:

I clap my hands. Genius. Hands down. Thank you my friend.

#10

calliberjoe has ACE COMBAT 8: WINGS OF THEVE

15 hours ago

i mean they did the same thing with multiple US planes. the loadouts on some of them are just awful.

#11

Harawanagangsta has ACE COMBAT 8: WINGS OF THEVE

15 hours ago

NERD

#12

KDR_11k

9 hours ago

It's a game with flying super battleships that are immune to everything except a bunker buster to the turret, it's pure fantasy. Planes are stronger or weaker purely on where the game design wants to place them. A lot of planes have functions that are not modeled in this game at all or nerfed into the ground (see e.g. stealth which doesn't matter at all at combat range). Meanwhile each plane carries ridiculous amounts of munitions. That's just how making a missile dogfighting game that lets you viably fly a lot of older planes is going to be.

And yes, loadouts are artificially restricted. Most if not all of these planes can equip way more than three types of missiles IRL. That's just how the game adds differentiation to the planes. Look at how different the options for the F/A-18E andF/A-18F are. But this is also what makes people diversify their plane picks more instead of always going for the best stats.

#13

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ACE COMBAT 8: WINGS OF THEVE > General Discussions > Topic Details

Date Posted: Oct 9 @ 10:56pm

Posts: 13