Fallout 4

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Devin and his analysis is example of what's wrong with Bethesda fans
As you might know, a youtuber called Devin in HD made a video on Fallout 3 called 'Tenpenny Tower is morally impossible' and you might've also heard about how critically panned it was by the Fallout community for how poorly done it was, the mental gymnastics to justify Roy and his gang, and lack of interest in understanding other characters given how Devin admits in the said video he skipped through most of Tenpenny's dialogue.

Now I won't go into the whole analysis why his take on Tenpenny Tower dilemma is wrong since there are already videos covering that, instead I wanna focus on two things he said in the video that to me shows everything wrong with Bethesda Fallout community

1. Justification of sociopathic or antisocial behavior

This isn't really an uncommon thing in the community, I've seen it start off since the release of Fallout TV show, but Devin's one line about how wasteland "breaks down" good people underlines the mentality people use to justify evil characters like Cooper Howard or "nice gals" like that shiksa Lucy MacLean. People, similarly to Devin, say that with society in ruins and world in chaos it's no wonder that many of the good people would eventually break bad under the inhumane circumstances, and while there's some truth that under extreme stress and depression people can change for worse, it's usually used as justification towards already bad people.
Taking Roy Phillips from Fallout 3 for example, we only know that before the war he was a police officer, and that's about it. What kind of police officer was Roy, was he good person then, or a bad person? We don't know, but I'm more than willing to lean towards the case Roy was also a bad person before the war given that during the war police became more authoritarian and willing to use tear and experimental gas from Hallucigen Inc. on the protestors or rioters across the United States, not to mention police's participation in rounding up Chinese-American citizens. So if Roy was already complacent in government crackdown on the protestors and riots, it would be no wonder why with the society crumbling apart the man would become little different from raiders.

I've seen a lot of lack of media literacy and mental gymnastics done to justify Cooper Howard by calling him an "antihero" or a "morally grey hero" and Lucy, but these people didn't "break" or turn bad because of the circumstances but because they were already terrible people. Cooper was a thief and a morally grandstanding moron who judged Mr House from high pedestal while not only stealing from him the mcguffin to save a city, but also handing it over to US President of all people. So when the world ended, eventually his mask slipped and he allowed more of his worst qualities to surface on and that's how he became a monster. Because he was always one from the start.
Lucy's problem is that she is "nice". She isn't a good person, or was a bad person, just nice, and that was just a mask to hide her real self that slips down when she gets addicted after one dose of Buffout. This niceness eventually slips revealing she is a bad person as showcased in her lack of reaction when a slave girl gets murdered by the Legion, when she murders the Kings in cold blood because they're "ghouls" (Xander must be proud), where she regrets destroying the Blackbox for mind chips, mind chipping her own father, and her only being nice cause it's expected of her, not because she wants to be, or believes in it. It's all a play while deep down she's a selfish and morally corrupt person. She's no different from Norman Osborn in first Spider-Man film, putting on a nice mask in public, but within is a rotten person.

The defense of bad characters falls flat when you see how many good people remained true to their beliefs even after many tragedies befell on them, or if they've lived so long enough as to find cynical outlook on life. Raul Tejada had his family murdered by the survivors after the bombs dropped, but it didn't turn him into a violent murderer, Arcade Gannon isn't seeking vengeance on the NCR for Navarro, but instead looks down on the Enclave and anyone holding onto the idea that's long gone, he's kind and wants to better the wasteland. Veronica doesn't like BoS' self-destructive path, but still sees nobility in their cause to keep dangerous technology out of people's hands and some good in the Codex, the code that keeps BoS apart from many other post-War groups.

For more on Cooper Howard check out my thread here: https://steamcommunity.com/app/1151340/discussions/0/563659924718022559/

2. Poor engagement with critics and defense of the brand

While Devin doesn't display all negative characteristics noticed in many of Bethesda fans, he does display some of it down in the comments, or the way he conducts his research like when he claims he skipped through most of the dialogue for Tenpenny cause he found it "boring". Bethesda fans often also like to give out witty remarks how they skip through characters' dialogue and dumb down what they say, or giving a witty comeback at the critics by namecalling them, and downplaying their critique because they're hurting the image of their favorite brand.

I notice it a lot in the Bethesda fanspace discourses how the fans are willing to harass, mock, and belittle fans of the older games and New Vegas, or just the critics of their franchise. They're willing to slander even the original creators like Tim Cain and Chris Avellone cause they're willing to call out Bethesda on their mistakes and retcons. Some of the fans can come off as petty as saying they feel "joy" about how the show ruined New Vegas, or how they're glad other people are upset or critical in what direction the franchise went. This isn't a normal behavior, it's terminally online or at worse an antisocial behavior to experience joy from someone else's misery, or to never engage with the critics and other fans in proper etiquette.

I'm writing this because I'm tired of Bethesda fans taking up space in other communities and shunning the older fans for rightfully calling out Bethesda for their bad actions, and malicious or not retcons, and alteration of the franchise. Fans like this should either learn how to properly converse with others, or to not engage at all, and Bethesda should discourage this sort of behavior from their fans rather than indirectly endorsing it.
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Showing 1-15 of 64 comments
Sigh. Why does anyone try to be influenced by social media "influencers" spewing nonsense? This is probably some kid in his room killing time before bedtime.

:(
Originally posted by Out Of Bubblegum:
Sigh. Why does anyone try to be influenced by social media "influencers" spewing nonsense? This is probably some kid in his room killing time before bedtime.

:(

In what way am I being influenced? I don't even follow most of the anti-Bethesda influencers or pro-Bethesda ones.

Your reply falls into second category literally, you haven't addressed anything, just belittled the post and me as a person instead of doing any proper response.
Originally posted by Warlock:
Originally posted by Out Of Bubblegum:
Sigh. Why does anyone try to be influenced by social media "influencers" spewing nonsense? This is probably some kid in his room killing time before bedtime.

:(

In what way am I being influenced? I don't even follow most of the anti-Bethesda influencers or pro-Bethesda ones.

Your reply falls into second category literally, you haven't addressed anything, just belittled the post and me as a person instead of doing any proper response.

To do a "proper response", I would have to give that influencer money to listen to the post. No way am I gonna do that. I do not care what he says or what your complaints are. My only point is that you ARE being influenced by listening to them. And you support them by giving them money.
"Older fans feel attacked because new fans or those who don't agree with their blinkered opinions are being mean to them".

"bethesda took the WRONG SIDE!"

That's all I get from this. Neckbeard fans =/= the fan base that gets to spend money and time on the game and enjoy it.
Originally posted by Zekiran:
"Older fans feel attacked because new fans or those who don't agree with their blinkered opinions are being mean to them".

"bethesda took the WRONG SIDE!"

That's all I get from this. Neckbeard fans =/= the fan base that gets to spend money and time on the game and enjoy it.

You're proving my second point. How about you actually engage with the criticism instead of using buzzwords or brand loyalty is that blinding?
Because we already had this exact same discussion on that last flamefest you started?
Originally posted by Out Of Bubblegum:
Originally posted by Warlock:

In what way am I being influenced? I don't even follow most of the anti-Bethesda influencers or pro-Bethesda ones.

Your reply falls into second category literally, you haven't addressed anything, just belittled the post and me as a person instead of doing any proper response.

To do a "proper response", I would have to give that influencer money to listen to the post. No way am I gonna do that. I do not care what he says or what your complaints are. My only point is that you ARE being influenced by listening to them. And you support them by giving them money.

This post is free, you can read it or you can move along, it's not that hard. If you cannot engage with criticism in proper fashion, it's best not to say anything at all.

I'm not being influenced by anyone, I'm just tired of Bethesda fans revisioning the history of Fallout, of the misinformation, and the demonization of New Vegas fans by the upper room at Bethesda and Amazon's writing room.
Originally posted by Zekiran:
Because we already had this exact same discussion on that last flamefest you started?

I didn't start any flamefest. I made a post and wanted to engage in sincere manner. You and others made snarky reddit tier comments and didn't engage since. The only one who did was Douglas.
Originally posted by Warlock:
You're proving my second point. How about you actually engage with the criticism instead of using buzzwords or brand loyalty is that blinding?

He is not proving your point IMO, there is no right or wrong, if new bethesda fans like whatever bethesda is doing they are going to defend the same way fallout1/2 fans will defend what they like.
And we have the ones that start calling names, those bad apple you find in both sides!
Originally posted by Didaibr:
Originally posted by Warlock:
You're proving my second point. How about you actually engage with the criticism instead of using buzzwords or brand loyalty is that blinding?

He is not proving your point IMO, there is no right or wrong, if new bethesda fans like whatever bethesda is doing they are going to defend the same way fallout1/2 fans will defend what they like.
And we have the ones that start calling names, those bad apple you find in both sides!

That's not really comparable. Fallout 1-2 fans can like the older games and still criticize the games made by Obsidian or Black Isle, in fact it literally happens a lot. Old fans aren't happy with how Fallout 2 was more comical than the last game, they hated the references to Monty Python and the Holy Grail, they hated Gordon of Gecko and the whole "greed is good" line that helps solve Gecko v Vault 8 conflict. Even I have my own share of issues with New Vegas as much as I love the game.

In comparison new fans will defend the new products till their dying breath, most of them are never willing to admit the mistakes on writers' part, or how messed up the season one message was. Fall of Shady Sands? Fall actually doesn't mean the fall and Shady Sands experienced a decline despite season 2 showing the city being in fairly good state. BoS? Different chapters will have different ideologies and beliefs, except there are no more original chapters and the ones present are all show invented ones. NCR? It was actually Obsidian that always wanted to wipe it out. Capitalism bad? "Intentional or not, Fallout was always about capitalism being bad". Wastelanders being portrayed as complete degenerates? "It shows how capitalism affected the poor". New fans defend every decision made by Nolan and Howard, they distort the truth, never admit fault, and say how 'elitist' the old fans are when it's just that people have higher standards.
is this "its the customers fault that my product suck" or is it worth reading?
Originally posted by Vazkulator:
is this "its the customers fault that my product suck" or is it worth reading?

Probably worth reading the post first, then draw the conclusion
And all this ties into fallout4 how? You know, the point of these forums?

You talk about a "left wing" perspective video on the events in Fallout 3.

You talk about the TV show....

You want to to talk about how good or bad fallout 4 is, great!

Otherwise, post this in the Fallout 3 forums where it belongs.
Originally posted by Nitemares:
And all this ties into fallout4 how? You know, the point of these forums?

You talk about a "left wing" perspective video on the events in Fallout 3.

You talk about the TV show....

You want to to talk about how good or bad fallout 4 is, great!

Otherwise, post this in the Fallout 3 forums where it belongs.

There's a mention of Hallucigen Inc which ties in to Fallout 4, and also the mention of persecution of Chinese-American citizens is also present in Fallout 4. So it all relates to Fallout 4 in the end.

And even more so, this is about Fallout, this is a Fallout forum, albeit for Fallout 4, so it does belong that even if it doesn't directly touch on the game. If the post was about discussing Fallout 3's Railroad and how it ties in to Fallout 4, would you also say it shouldn't be here, or just let it be?
Dude you still don't even legally own the game on that account.

You keep trying to defend a paywalled discussion point cloaked in insulting 'well ackshully' styled dodging and weaving.

People like what they like.

Bethesda is the owner of the IP. They can and should do anything they like with it. The same people baby-bawling over how 'woke' or how 'it's not really fallout' are still going to BUY the products no matter what.

They do not have to like the product. They don't have to like ME liking what I like about the products. None of this is in any way something other than I want people to believe what I say because reasons. It's sad.

Just let people like what they like. it's just an opinion, not a manifesto.
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